Here, in broadcast order, is an interesting, telling contrast in style and views on this most critical issue.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/1/israeli_official_condemns_gaza_flotilla_refuses
Israeli Official Condemns Gaza Flotilla, Refuses to Deny Israeli Role in Sabotage of Boats
AMY GOODMAN: For more we’re joined on the telephone by Ido Aharoni, he is the Consul General of Israel in New York. He served in the Israel Defense Forces as a company commander in the infantry during the first Lebanon War. In the spring of '93 he was appointed to serve under then Foreign Minister Shimon Perez as policy assistant to Israel's chief negotiator with the Palestinians. Welcome to Democracy Now! Israeli Consul General Ido Aharoni. I wanted to start by asking you, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanked the Greek Prime Minister Papandreou, which at this point Greece has prevented the boat, the Audacity of Hope, the U.S. flag ship and others in the flotilla from moving ahead. What has the Prime Minister done to work with the Israeli government in this? Why is Benjamin Netanyahu thanking him?
IDO AHARONI: Well, I think that the general notion that the entire idea of sending the flotilla when you have the borders of Egypt now open and there is a flow of commodities and goods in and from Gaza is a bad idea, is not only endorsed by the Greek government, but also by the U.S. administration. We think it’s a bad idea, there are major players in the international arena that think it’s a bad idea. We’re not set out to destroy the Earth, we’re not set out to inflict any harm on them, but we have legitimate claims and we feel that they’re not being met by the organizers.
AMY GOODMAN: Is Greece working with the Israeli government in stopping the flotilla from taking off?
IDO AHARONI: Look, I’m not familiar with the details of what is happening exactly between, as you know, I am positioned here in the United States, and I can tell you that we are very happy on the public position taken by a number of countries in Europe as well as the U.S. administration that contends that the very idea of flotilla is a provocation, unneeded one, illegitimate one.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Consul General, this issue, the statements that financial links have been uncovered between Hamas and the flotilla organizers, could you elaborate on that?
IDO AHARONI: Well, I don’t know enough details on that as well. I can tell you again that the problem we have is that Gaza has been controlled by Hamas for several years now. We have practically handed over the keys to the Palestinians in Gaza and told them here, it’s all yours. This happened in August of 2005. Since then, we’ve received nothing but hostility and violence. 45,000 rockets were shelled on to Israel from Gaza during those years since 2005. We know of a recent shipment of yet another 8,000 rockets in to Gaza. So, we’re determined to make sure that Gaza will not turn in to a terrorist safe-haven. And I think that the people that support the idea of flotilla have to be aware of this very simple fact.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about the Israeli newspaper Maariv, which quoted several unnamed members of Israel’s security cabinet as saying the army’s claims were media spin and public relations hysteria, saying security cabinet ministers were given no such information when they were briefed on the flotilla this week. That is, information about arms, about chemical use that’s expected, anything like that.
IDO AHARONI: I don’t really know, what more do you need than the living proof of 45,000 rockets shelled on to innocent civilians, children, women, the elderly? Our entire southern region was paralyzed for six years, inflicted major economic damage. Many people were injured, several even died. What more do you need? This is the number-one problem we had in our southern region for years, and that’s the reason why we had to go into Gaza in early 2009. We are determined to make sure that Hamas is not acquiring more weapons and more arms, and we are making sure that every shipment, that goes into Gaza, is very well inspected. That’s the only reason why we’re doing it.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Consul General, the organizers of the flotilla have raised these issues that several of their ships have been sabotaged, and they believe that Israel would be the only one who would be interested in doing that and they believe Israel is behind it. Can you say publicly that Israel has not been involved in any kind of sabotage attempts on these ships?
IDO AHARONI: Look, this is the most irrelevant question, whether the ships were sabotaged or not. The entire idea of the flotilla is unneeded, not necessary, and it is not legitimate. If they are interested in providing aid to Gaza, there are ways to do it, through international organizations, they can do it directly with Israel, they can actually do it through Egypt. They were invited by the Egyptian government through the port of El Arish, but for some reason the organizers are determined to turn this in to a media event and to create a provocation that is unneeded and will endanger the lives of all the people involved, and there is no need to do that.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Consul General, you are not denying responsibility for sabotaging these boats?
IDO AHARONI: Well, I don’t know the details. I have no idea what the organizers are claiming. I haven’t seen any of those claims, but I can tell you that the whole idea of the flotilla is unnecessary, and we have no interest in dealing with it, and hopefully the flotilla will not leave to be on its way to Israel.
AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you another question and it’s about the journalists. The Israeli government has said that journalists who cover the flotilla will be banned from Israel for 10 years. Why?
IDO AHARONI: I think that this statement was reversed by the government, which issued another statement that journalists are welcome to board the ship we have nothing to hide.
AMY GOODMAN: So, will they not be arrested? We have our own journalists on board, our reporters are there in Athens and planning to board the ship. They will not be arrested? Do we have these guarantees, and their equipment, our cameras, will not be confiscated?
IDO AHARONI: Again, I don’t know the details. I guess that the people that will board the ship probably have to find information themselves. I can tell you that based on the statements of the Israeli government released, the Israeli press is more than welcome to cover the actions of the Israeli navy.
AMY GOODMAN: National press, not just Israeli press?
IDO AHARONI: You asked me about a statement that is part of the Israeli Press and a statement that was issued by the Israeli government. It’s part of the Israeli press and as the Prime Minister’s office clarified this decision was reversed and the media is more than welcome to, we’re operating in full transparency.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to follow up on a point you just made about what happened in November of 2008. An official Israeli government publication, the Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, reported, "Hamas was careful to maintain the cease-fire" and only fired rockets at Israel "in retaliation," after Israel broke the cease-fire on November 4th. This is an Israeli government publication.
IDO AHARONI: Well, I want to tell you something. You don’t really have to do more than just look at the Hamas Charter, this is an organization that openly calls for the annihilation of the state of Israel. It is an organization that is refusing to recognize Israel’s right to exist, an organization that repeatedly denies all past agreements signed between Israel and the Palestinians. This is an organization that acted against Israel from day one. I don’t think we need to prove that. This is a position embraced by...
AMY GOODMAN: But the people on board the ship are people like the 87-year-old Holocaust survivor, Hedy Epstein, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Alice Walker, the well known labor lawyer Richard Levy, and others. These are the people who say that they are trying to challenge the blockade of Gaza, which brings me to this question, Consul General. Is Gaza occupied by Israel?
IDO AHARONI: The people that participate in this flotilla have to know what they’re doing and which organization they are endorsing and Hamas is a terrorist organization that totally negates the goals of the Palestinian national movement and our idea of a two state solution. It’s an organization that resorts to violence any opportunity they are given, and I would certainly urge them to learn more about Hamas before they participate in this flotilla. Thank you so much. Unfortunately, I cannot continue with this interview because I have another engagement. Thank you so much.
AMY GOODMAN: But just that follow up on, is Israel occupying Gaza? Because it goes to the issue of who’s waters are off of the coast of Gaza? Does Israel have the right to intervene there?
IDO AHARONI: The reality on the ground is very simple, the facts are very simple. In August of 2005, the government of the state of Israel put an end to thousands of households in [inaudible] that practically handed over the keys to Gaza. Hamas, instead of turning it into an oasis, turned it into a safe haven for terrorists. It is something that no government, including the Israeli government, should accept. Thank you so much and have a great day.
AMY GOODMAN: Thank you very much for joining us. We have just been speaking with the Consul General of Israel in New York, Ido Aharoni.
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http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/1/ali_abunimah_responds_to_israeli_claims
Ali Abunimah Responds To Israeli Claims That Gaza Flotilla Is A “Provocation”
(Ali Abunimah is co-founder of The Electronic Intifada)
JUAN GONZALEZ: Amy, as the 400 international activists wait to set sail from Greece to Gaza Israeli media has been full of reports speculating about the activist character and motivations for participating in the voyage. Israeli newspapers have charged that the flotilla is carrying sacks of chemicals on board because passengers plan to kill IDF soldiers. Yesterday the Israeli military claimed that it had uncovered financial links between the Gaza bound flotilla and the Palestinian movement Hamas. Our next guest has closely examined these allegations and he says they’re unsubstantiated. We’re joined from Chicago, Illinois by Ali Abunimah. He is the co-founder of the Electronic Intifada and the author of One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse. Ali Abunimah welcome to Democracy Now!
ALI ABUNIMAH: Good morning Juan.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, you’ve been listening to the interview with the Consul General, your response?
ALI ABUNIMAH: Yes, I did listen carefully to the representative of the government that has killed more than 2,200 people in Gaza since January 1, 2008. That vast majority of them women and children, claiming that Israel is under a grave security threat from a flotilla of civilian ships carrying people such as the great Alice Walker, Hedy Epstein, many other Americans who are committed to the cause of justice and peace and people from all around the world.
What doesn’t add up about his claims, there’s two things, one is, that Israel is trying to present the flotilla as a military threat whereas nobody in the world believes that including, as Amy pointed out in that question, not even Israeli cabinet ministers. Amy pointed out the very significant report in Maariv of members of the Israeli security cabinet saying they had been given absolutely no information of any threat or any links to terrorist organizations from the flotilla. That matched a report that was reported in Haaretz on Sunday that Israel’s security cabinet had been given a briefing by the foreign ministry and by security and defense officials and they had been told that Israel knew of no connections whatsoever between the flotilla, the flotilla organizers and any terrorist organizations. The problem here is that Israelis say one thing in Hebrew and then they come on Democracy Now! and they say a completely opposite thing in English. So, that’s really a crucial point.
The second point is that the Israeli propaganda spin is trying to present this as a humanitarian aid issue. They’re saying why do you need to send a flotilla to Gaza when we are transferring humanitarian aid to Gaza? And this is a complete distortion and a complete non sequitur. Gaza has been reduced to dependence on humanitarian aid because of Israel’s blockade. Much more important than bringing humanitarian aid in is allowing the Gaza economy to breath and to function, to allow producers and manufacturers in Gaza to manufacture and export, something that Israel has not allowed. so, Gaza would not be dependent on humanitarian aid if there were no blockade. That’s one thing.
The other thing is, take for example, the U.S. boat to Gaza, it’s not carrying humanitarian aid it’s carrying letters of goodwill and solidarity from Americans. And this is to make the point that this is not about treating Palestinians in Gaza as animals in a cage where if you shove enough food through the bars then you need not worry about them. The blockade is collective punishment, which is illegal under international law. And you don’t have to take my word for it you don’t even have to take the word of the International Committee of the Red Cross that has said so, you can refer to the words of Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman who has said openly that the blockade is a form of political pressure.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ali, we are going to have to leave it there. I want to thank you very much, Ali Abunimah for being with us, co-founder of the Electronic Intifada and the author of One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli Palestinian Impasse.
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